Does North Korea have digital control and is known as one of the most isolated countries in the world.
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Yet, there are North Koreans who have access to some of the same kinds of technologies that are available to the rest of the world, albeit with severe restrictions.
A new report suggests that some even hack their smartphones to get around the stringent digital controls.
The authors of the report looked at North Korean phones and spoke to two escapees, a former computer programmer for the North Korean government and a former computer science student.
One of the authors Martyn Williams as well as North Korea expert and co-host of the BBC podcast The Lazarus Heist Jean H. Lee join us on the programme.
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The programme is presented by Gareth Mitchell with expert commentary from Ghislaine Boddington. Studio Manager: Steve Greenwood Producer: Florian Bohr
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